AfriGeneas Free People of Color Chat Log - Wed 05 Dec 2001
Host George Geder

Host Geder> Hello Hello
Host Geder> Time is 6:05 pacific
k wyer lane> hey jeter
Host Geder> Hello K
k wyer lane> Are we waiting for a lot of folks?
Host Geder> Yea, sort of....
k wyer lane> Arturo hello
Host Geder> Hello Art!
Art (Ohio)> Hi Jeter, {{{{K}}}}} what's up?
Host Geder> Raining in CA  :9
> =:(
Art (Ohio)> Didn't think it rained in CA
k wyer lane> oh dear all of this internet speak!
Host Geder> K, I think your forum is helping a lot of us!
k wyer lane> I was thrilled to see all of the responses.
k wyer lane> Both of you men have done incredible research.
Art (Ohio)> Really K, it's taking off.
k wyer lane> So what is our topic for this evening?
Host Geder> Its bolstered my confidence in my writing (just what I needed)
Art (Ohio)> Why not, your Forum as our topic K?
Host Geder> Open topic, salute to the chat folks and the new 'FPOC' forum...etc
k wyer lane> I am really excited about the FPOC. 
Host Geder> ...somewhat determined by who shows up...
k wyer lane> It is the most mis-understood group of African Americans.
 
Art (Ohio)> Me too, I'm interested in the understanding of what a FPOC
is.
Host Geder> ..And the most unrealized group...
k wyer lane> We all have been taught that they were all offspring or
rich planters, but hardly the case.
Host Geder> When I mention AA genealogy to people, invariably they never think
of FPOC's
k wyer lane> One of my favorite figures was Thoms Day of North Carolina.
 He was a furniture maker
Art (Ohio)> Very true, and there isn't much discussion on the Black
Codes they had to endure in most States.
k wyer lane> and did all of the finishing at the Univ of Virginia's
Library.  
k wyer lane> This was during the time of Thomas Jefferson.  His furniture
now goes for 10 to 30K
Host Geder> Wow, Mr. Day had skills!
k wyer lane> Sorry If I interrupted Art
Art (Ohio)> No, I interrupted
k wyer lane> Were the Black Codes in all States?
Host Geder> I need to read up on the Black Codes...
Art (Ohio)> I think so, And their years of enactment vary from the early
years up to the CW.
RB(TN)> Good evening, all!
Art (Ohio)> Hi RB
Host Geder> Hello RB!
k wyer lane> Hi RB
Host Geder> Open tonight; talking about the Black codes...
RB(TN)> Topic?
RB(TN)> Oh
Art (Ohio)> Ohio came in as a Free State in 1803 and passed their Black
Laws in 1804
Art (Ohio)> Incoming Blacks had to post a Bond to come into the State,
They could own property, but couldn't 
   vote..or testify in court against a white person, etc.
k wyer lane> It's amazing how the Black Codes were instituted to restrict
free people. It was basically a form 
   of slavery
k wyer lane> In Florida free people had to have a "guardian".
RB(TN)> Heyyyyyy jt !
Host Geder> Hello JT
k wyer lane> Hi JT
Art (Ohio)> very true...black offspring took the status of their mother...a
reason not to free (manumit) black 
   woman...so her children would be born as slaves.
Art (Ohio)> Hi jt logan
RB(TN)> Heyyyyy jt! Sandra !!
Sandra in BR> Hi Everybody.  (c:
jtlogan (PA)> Hello folks
Host Geder> Open topic, Black Codes & FPOC
k wyer lane> Hi Sandra
jtlogan (PA)> uh, oh
Host Geder> Hello Sandra!
Art (Ohio)> hi Sandra
Sandra in BR> Hi RB, jt, k, Jeter, and Art.
jtlogan (PA)> Hey Sandra
Host Geder> A very PUBLIC Congrats on the FPOC forum!
Art (Ohio)> Right on, Jeter!!
Sandra in BR> (c:  Thanks, I'll do my best to manage as well as you
guys are already doing.
Sandra in BR> (or even almost as well)
Host Geder> Sandra, tell us some of your plans and ideas....
k wyer lane> Sandra share with us your vision and what you define as
FPOC
Host Geder> K, please explain the 'guardian' thing in Florida....
Sandra in BR> Uhhhhh, Jeter, I don't know if I'm ready for this. I accepted
bec VKN asked me. K, to my way 
   of thinking, FPOC included any African ancestored folks who were free
before the passage of the 13th 
   Amendment, but also sometimes included Native American folks.
Host Geder> Ok, no pressure here,...
Art (Ohio)> If anyone is looking at Fairfax County, VA ,,I have their
Registration of Free Negros from 1822-1861
Sandra in BR> My goal, I guess, is for folks to find out more about
FPOC, share their findings, and thereby, 
   hopefully, help those folks who don't know that they had FPOC ancestors.
Host Geder> Good, that's an important concept!
Sandra in BR> Art, I hope you will be able to share some of that ifo--don't
want to infringe on any copywritten 
   stuff though.
k wyer lane> I've given Valencia an archive about the FPOC in Florida.
A law was passed in the 1840's approx. 
   that made it mandatory that FPOC had to have a white guardian.
Sandra in BR> ifo=info
Sandra in BR> K, I think that was the case in several, if not all, of
the Southern states....
k wyer lane> If the FPOC was living in Fla before 1820 they were exempted
k wyer lane> This guardian would transact their business for them, keep
them safe ha ha.
Sandra in BR> I'm sure I've heard that it was true for those in NC,
but I haven't personally read the documents, 
   laws. Guess I have to get busy learning. (c:
jtlogan (PA)> In Indiana, the borders were closed to FPOCs in 1800.
k wyer lane> It they didn't comply they would be fined or imprisoned.
Sandra in BR> Another way FPOC weren't very free....
Art (Ohio)> many States gave newly free blacks a certain amount of time
to 'get out of dodge' or become 
   re-enslaved.
k wyer lane> Right and many of them left and went to Cuba or Mexico
Tampico
Sandra in BR> When did they open back up, JT?
Host Geder> Wow, teach me!
Sandra in BR> Yes, that happened in VA, Art.
jtlogan (PA)> 1865.
Sandra in BR> Really?  Wow!  But there were FPOC in Indiana, nonetheless,
right, JT?
Art (Ohio)> Many northern states did not want newly freed blacks,,,northern
whites said the south was getting 
   rid of their undesirables by freeing them and sending them north
Sandra in BR> Okay, I gotta get some more ink cartridges, bec. I'm asking
you all right now to please send 
   me facts at your disposal. I got a lot to learn. (c:
jtlogan (PA)> Those that were already there were begrudingly allowed
to stay, but those wanting to migrate 
   were discouraged; I believe the same was true in IL.
> ~
k wyer lane> You'll see the Exodus on Afrigeneas very soon. Sandra.
Valencia has it.
Sandra in BR> Jeter?  What's that for?  "~"
Host Geder> It's just a 'marker' for me, as I copy the log...
Sandra in BR> K, you talking about those who left for Cuba and Mexico
Tampico?
k wyer lane> Yes in the 1840's
Sandra in BR> Were (former) Spanish colonies free in the 1840s? I know
that Britain abolished slavery in the 
   1840s....
Art (Ohio)> Do a search on 'Randolph Slaves' 380+ freed at one time.
Came into Mercer County, Ohio in 1846 
   to settle on land bought for them. White's attacked them and sent
them back to southern Ohio. That land was 
   eventually flooded and is now known as Grand Lake St. Mary's in Mercer
County, Ohio.
k wyer lane> The Floridas were handed over to the Americans in 1820.
There was slavery then and of course 
   after .
RB(TN)> Heyyyyyyy E.T.
Sandra in BR> Yes, Art, I'm familiar with the Randolph emancipation,
but only on the VA side, not too much 
   about what happened to them. Jeter, i'm gonna need a copy of the chat
log, pls.
E.T.(CA)> Greetings, all!
Art (Ohio)> hi E,T,
Host Geder> Hello E.T.; open topic FPOC
Sandra in BR> Hi ET!  (c:
Host Geder> No problem, Sandra
k wyer lane> The difference in Spanish rule and slavery was that the
Spanish never saw slavery as permanent. 
   They felt that it was an unfortunate state of a human, and their laws
made it very easy to become free.
Sandra in BR> Yeah, by becoming Catholic.
Sandra in BR> but even that changed
k wyer lane> You may have heard of the Black Fort Mose in Eastern Florida
Sandra in BR> Same as Fort Negro, K?
k wyer lane> And Prince Whitten a Black from Africa  who led many a
revolt.  I only know it as Ft. Mose.
 ~
k wyer lane> No Catholicism was not a pre requisite for freedom
Sandra in BR> Fort Nego held out for a while, but eventually they were
all killed bec they refused to surrender.
k wyer lane> We interviewed Jane Landers on line this summer
k wyer lane> She wrote a book on Black Society in Spanish Florida
Sandra in BR> Tell me more, K, pls.
Host Geder> Yes, I was trying to recall her name (my bad)
Art (Ohio)> Yes, that was a GREAT chat session
k wyer lane> I can send you the file log
Sandra in BR> Did she cover blacks and Seminoles?  Thanks, K.  (c:
k wyer lane> It was mostly about Blacks in Eastern and Southern Fla.
 
Sandra in BR> Okay, I'm ready to learn.  (c:
E.T.(CA)> (maybe I'm addressing this late, but) The Spaniards are well
aware of Black folk. They were ruled by 
   Morrocans (the Moors) for about 800 years.
Sandra in BR> Yep, and the backlash was the Spanish Inquisition, right?
E.T.(CA)> Uhmmmm... I don't know that that was the reason Sandra, I
think it had to do with Catholicism (The 
   councils of Nice).
Art (Ohio)> Speaking of Seminoles as FPOC, check Bennie McRae's Posts
on his 'Lest We Forget" site. And 
   his trip to Bracketville, TX this past summner working with Seminole
descendants.
Host Geder> Wow, OK Art...
Sandra in BR> Yeah, but it was partly a response to getting rid of the
Moslems/Muslims.
k wyer lane> One thing about Mr. McRae, he always gets his facts right.
Sandra he has a wealth of 
   information about Black troops.
Sandra in BR> Thanks for that, Art.  I;ve been to "Lest We Forget,"
but never tocheck out Seminoles.
E.T.(CA)> Excellent suggestion Art. Also, the term Seminole does not
really refer to a nation of Native 
   Americans, but rather a group of people who banded together (Native
American and African American) who 
   'left' the Euro society being established here.
E.T.(CA)>  Right, Sandra.
k wyer lane> Yes ET, the word seminole comes from the Spanish word cimmarones
(spelling?)
Sandra in BR> K, I have a particular intest in the AA solider, coming
from a miitary family.  (c:
Sandra in BR> military
k wyer lane> Oh dear you too and Catholic too?
> What does it mean? cimmarones
k wyer lane> That's enough guilt and angst to last a life time
> LOL
Sandra in BR> Nope--,just nearly Catholic, by the grace of Henry VIIII,
I'm Episcopalian.  (c:
E.T.(CA)> K, I can't recall, but what you write is aggreeable to me.
Sandra in BR> K, you're a military brat?  Or were you in the service,
yourself?
k wyer lane> About the seminole and africans
E.T.(CA)> Yes.
k wyer lane> But don't let the Seminole of today hear us say that.
E.T.(CA)> The word "cimmorones".
k wyer lane> They deny that there are black seminoles.
E.T.(CA)> Agreed.
Sandra in BR> uh huh, yeah, right!
E.T.(CA)> They do that (I think) to be able to get government funding.
(no excuse in my book!)
k wyer lane> If you give me a moment, I'll pull out my favorite book
on the topic,  "Creeks and Seminoles"
Sandra in BR> I've met some Louisiana Indians with curly/bushy hair.
Sandra in BR> But they don't hae any African ancestors, either.  (c:
 "Full Indian"
Sandra in BR> hae=have
E.T.(CA)> (Don't beat me up, y'all) Indians are from India. The folks
here are (for lack of a better discription) 
   Native Americans.
Sandra in BR> wb, Art
RB(TN)> WB Art
> WB Art
k wyer lane> Cimarron means en espanol "wild untamed"
Art2 (Ohio)> Ok, I'll shut up,, please don't kick me out again   LOL
E.T.(CA)> Exactly K. That's what I was looking for.
> Yes, I was just looking it up, thanks
E.T.(CA)> :=)
Sandra in BR> Yeah, ET, Columbis made a mistake. But are they Americans
just cuz another Italian got the 
   continent named for him? Most of them originally called themselves
"the people," I think.
E.T.(CA)> Agreed, Sandra...
E.T.(CA)>  Africa is named for an Italian explorer, too!
k wyer lane> Wright the author goes on to say that since there was no
R in the Hitichi and Muscogee 
   language it then went through to seminole
Sandra in BR> Columbo/Columbus, whatever---hahahahahahaha
Sandra in BR> interesting fact, K.  (c:
> Good point,  Sandra, but America is the 'default' name...
k wyer lane> I am pretty sure that there as a brother who came over
with Columbus. THAT I am not looking up 
   tonight.
Sandra in BR> Okay, should we just call them the New World People???
 (c:
Sandra in BR> K, I'm trying to remember his name....
k wyer lane> He wasn't a slave either.
Sandra in BR> duh!  "Computer" is slow, tonight.
Art2 (Ohio)> Wasn't Estavico was it? Black Codes...In 1793, the VA General
council enacted legislation" to 
   restrain the practice of negroes going at large...'great inconveinences
have arisen' so every free negro was 
   required to register with the clerk of the county. yearly in cities
and every three years in the counties.
Sandra in BR> (Can't remmember the name.)
Sandra in BR> No, Art, Estevanico (various spellings) explored the SW
part of what is now the US.
Art2 (Ohio)> Okay
Sandra in BR> Along w/Coronado, or some other conquistador.
RB(TN)> What a history class, tonight!!!> 
E.T.(CA)> There was a Black man who came with Columbus. (I can't recall
the details though (Not very good 
   research techniques)
~~~~~~~~> ~
Sandra in BR> Looking for those Seven Cities of Gold.
E.T.(CA)> Boy, didn't the indigenous folks here fool that moron!
Sandra in BR> Name escapes me at the moment, ET. Now I'll be up all
hours trying to remember it, or maybe 
   just do a quick search. (c:
E.T.(CA)> I hear ya, Sandra! Me too!
Sandra in BR> Indigenous--good word, ET.  (c:
E.T.(CA)> Thanks, Sandra. I always say, "They're NOT Indians!
Sandra in BR> Well, there was actually gold in them thar hills....
E.T.(CA)> Yeah, but where are the other six cities?!   :=)
Sandra in BR> So what do you call West Indians, ET?  (My paternal granny
was from Jamaica.)
k wyer lane> I think that the most amazing thing about this conversation
is that we have hopped all over the 
   continent and discussed how our people contributed, survived.
E.T.(CA)> Poce De Leon!
E.T.(CA)> Ponce De Leon!
Sandra in BR> Ponce de Leon was a conquistador from Spain.
> Yes K, its amazing!
Sandra in BR> Looking for eternal youth--hah!
k wyer lane> Right ET a brother came with de Leon.
k wyer lane> To what is now Puerto Rico.
Sandra in BR> There's plenty of evidence that Africans preceded Europeans
to the "New World."
E.T.(CA)> Sandra, they were Africans taken there by the Spaniards, the
Dutch, the English and the French. 
   And of course they mixed with the Iindigenous.
Sandra in BR> And ain't it funny how the Africans were interpreters
for the Europeans and indigenous people?
k wyer lane> Bingo Sandra.
k wyer lane> We were linguists too.
Sandra in BR> Even back to Estevanico, who was one of the first non-indigenous
people in the SW?
E.T.(CA)> Y'all be too deep. I guess that's why AfriGeneas is so tuff!
RB(TN)> I found one source who say the name was Pietro El Negro (Mr.
Peter- the nigger)
RB(TN)> http://www.blackwebportal.com/forums/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=12&Topic=573
k wyer lane> The Panton Leslie Traders used African-Americans when they
traded skinswith the Indians. They 
   spoke the native dialects etc, Spanish, French and Englsih.
Sandra in BR> Hey, we gotta be tough to survive.  Nego means black in
Spanish.
Sandra in BR> nego
E.T.(CA)> I'm not a linguist, but I think the Spanish for 'black' is
negro.
Sandra in BR> daaaaaaag  negro
E.T.(CA)> I mean "negra".
Sandra in BR> right, ET, typing to fast to spell it right  (c:
Sandra in BR> negra for female, negro for male....
k wyer lane> or negre
RB(TN)> (Thanks, again, Jeter for *google.com*)
E.T.(CA)> I see.
> Yer welcome, RB...lol
E.T.(CA)> And, a 'brother' founded Chicago!   Baptiste
Art2 (Ohio)> Didn't the Central & South American cultures of the Mayas
& the Incans reportedly show African 
   influences....and this was before Chris and the others.
E.T.(CA)> I agree, Art.
RB(TN)> Crossings in papyrus boats have been proven to be viable and
indeed duplicated 
RB(TN)> All the way from The African continent to South America.
E.T.(CA)> Y'all folks been doin' yo homework! Let the people know what
we know!
k wyer lane> Speaking of linguists, Art. A man from your neck of the
woods, Elmer Spyglass was a translator 
   at the Nuremburg trials. (I G Farben) Yellow Springs I think. Do you
know of him?
Art2 (Ohio)> I just saw a Spyglass obit at the Gen Society today. My
Mentor knew the family well.
k wyer lane> We need to talk.  I would love to see it.  My family knew
him in Giessen,
Sandra in BR> Daaag.  I went *poof.*
k wyer lane> What a small world...full of so many wonderful African-Americans
like Elmer.
Art2 (Ohio)> I have a funeral program where a Mrs. Spyglass was a passenger
in one of the cars in the 
   procession.
E.T.(CA)> Those Germans (strange people) and to think that I have them
in my ancestry!
> WB Sandra
Sandra in BR> I'm glad you're sending me the chat log, ET.  (c:
E.T.(CA)> Ha!!
Sandra in BR> Thanks, Jeter.  Or is it you, Jeter?  Sorry if I'm wrong.
E.T.(CA)> Oh, excuse me. I guess I've got a job to do, Sandra!    :=)
> Gotcha covered, sandra
Sandra in BR> (c:
Sandra in BR> Who are Elmer, and Mrs. Spyglass, and "those Germans?"
E.T.(CA)> I'm still tryin' to get to the message boards....today has
been hectic!
> ~E.T. I'm logging as we go....
k wyer lane> Take it Arthur.
E.T.(CA)> Great, Jeter. You be da man, too!
Art2 (Ohio)> Elmer Spyglass , a world renowned AA musician who went
to live in Germany, was there at the 
   end of WWII and acted as a translator at the Nuremburgh (sp) trials
Art2 (Ohio)> Also in Germany...during the War.
E.T.(CA)> Such a wonderful group! (excuse me if I sound mushy) Us folks
be bad. Never do we need to 
   succumb to the will of 'other'.
Sandra in BR> Ahhhhhh, okay.  I get the connection, I think.  Wha?????
 Where was he during the War?
k wyer lane> When Patton crossed the Rhine, Elmer  came out ot the rubble
literally and acted as traslator.
> I feel ya, E.T.
Sandra in BR> Wowowowowowow!
E.T.(CA)> Really Art?! I was never aware of that. Nor have I ever seen
him in the video's.
k wyer lane> For some strange reason the Nazi's never bothered him.
Sandra in BR> hmmmmmmm
k wyer lane> He had a German girlfriend too.
Art2 (Ohio)> od a google on Spyglass and see what you come up with
Art2 (Ohio)> Do
Sandra in BR> 'kay, Art.  (c:
E.T.(CA)> Yeah, and so did my brother. (Glad it never went any further)
k wyer lane> Arthur, if you are nice to me I will send you a photo of
me and Elmer.
E.T.(CA)> :=)
Sandra in BR> K????  related????
Art2 (Ohio)> Okay, I know how to be nice  lol
E.T.(CA)> You stop K! You're just bragging!    :=)
k wyer lane> Not at all, just a family friend. 
E.T.(CA)> :=)
> Wow!
E.T.(CA)> Me too, Jeter, Wow!!
Sandra in BR> wunderbar!  (Did I spell it right?)
E.T.(CA)> Yeah!
Art2 (Ohio)> Oh, E.T. How does one place a photo on a Post to the Forums?
k wyer lane> Elmer was a singer not a musician.
E.T.(CA)> pronounced: Vunderbar!
Art2 (Ohio)> E-mail me the procedure @ E.T.
E.T.(CA)> Scroll down, Art. You'll see it where you also place URL's.
Art2 (Ohio)> Okay, thanks
E.T.(CA)> You just give the location of where the photo is located.
You can't just up;oad it to the web-site (I 
   don't think) I've never done it. But I think that's how it's done.
E.T.(CA)> Someone will school me if I'm wrong.
> [This is the official end of a fantastic history lesson and chat -
Afrigeneas does it again!]
k wyer lane> Guys, I have to go and work on a proposal. Sandra, its
been great you have a great mind and a 
   great sense of humor. Will someone send me the chat log?
> Of course, we can continue!
Sandra in BR> What???  It can't be time to go!
> No problem K!
Art2 (Ohio)> Yeah Jeter,  Great job, as usual!!
Sandra in BR> Okay, K, thanks, appreciate the nice words.  (c:  
E.T.(CA)> I ain't goin' no where, unless y'all leave me.
Sandra in BR> I'm here to c-h-a-t!
> ~
E.T.(CA)> :=)
jtlogan (PA)> back
Sandra in BR> oops!  hold on a sec.  brb
Sandra in BR> back  I forgot to cook!  unbelievable!!!!
RB(TN)> Hahahahahahhahahahahahaahha
Sandra in BR> Such stimulating convo!
> Thanks to you all, you guys make this work!
Art2 (Ohio)> Sandra, Will you want examples of freedom papers, slave
sales, etc.?
Sandra in BR> Art, I want whatever you can send me (remmy the Pangburns?
 (c:   )
Sandra in BR> oops!  remmy = remember
Sandra in BR> My deaf students abbreviate it to remmy.
E.T.(CA)> Understood.
Sandra in BR> Just joking, Art.  I know you're looking.
> brb
Sandra in BR> (c:
Sandra in BR> Soooo, help me out, guys. Tell me what you think of FPOC
as a forum? Give me some food for 
   thought since I forgot food for the tummy.
Sandra in BR> Never fear, I'm cooking now.  (c:
Art2 (Ohio)> Can't send the book I referenced, but can cite examples
of former slaves of Geo. Washington 
   registering as FPOC's in Fairfax county, VA/
Sandra in BR> Yes, he freed all his slaves in his will, right? Was it
to be at Martha's death?
Sandra in BR> Where in VA is Fairfax?  Southside?  East?  North?
E.T.(CA)> I'm tickled that you've joined us,Sandra. I'll be following
your lead. And be sure to get your lead from 
   VKN. She only brings the best to AfriGeneas....
RB(TN)>        (c:
Sandra in BR> I'm with you there, ET.  She's a wonderful lady.
Art2 (Ohio)> I believe that's the way it worked, but she freed many
of them before she died.
Sandra in BR> 'kay, Art
E.T.(CA)> She's still waiting for jt to come aboard (at least, I am)
but, we understand that he's very busy with 
   his very dynamic group!
jtlogan (PA)> :>))
E.T.(CA)> :=)
RB(TN)> Is THAT an invite!!!
Sandra in BR> So who has FPOC ancestors here?
> back; we'll get him E.T. in time...
E.T.(CA)> From me, YES.
E.T.(CA)> I do!
jtlogan (PA)> What did I tell you, Art??
Sandra in BR> Oops, didn't mean to step on your toes, RB. (c:
Art2 (Ohio)> I can't believe it took him this long jt   lol
Sandra in BR> ET, where from?
jtlogan (PA)> I TOLD YOU!!!
> Sandra, I think I do but not sure
RB(TN)> Hehehehehhehehehe!!!
jtlogan (PA)> TOO MUCH LOVE FROM HIM.
E.T.(CA)> Several places, Sandra. But I'm still trying to find out how
and why they were free people. The 
   records have not been found, yet.
Sandra in BR> Where from, maybe, Jeter?
Art2 (Ohio)> Sandra, check my latest post to the Writers Forum for some
of my FPOC's
E.T.(CA)> jt's one of them 'hard' men who are suspicious of people like
me who try to 'come clean'. Don't worry 
   about jt. he'
Sandra in BR> Okay, Art, will do.  (c:
RB(TN)> No known FPOC's in my known lines
E.T.(CA)> s cool. Just needs to hear kind words from other brothers,
before he believes.    :=)
jtlogan (PA)> :>))
Art2 (Ohio)> Have a copy of Lewis Adams freedom papers (1813) and his
registration as a FPOC on Ohio. 
   remember the Black codes
Sandra in BR> I knew my maternal grandpa descended from FPOC, but I
can't find them before 1830.
> Rueben Melven, born in MD in 1756 - shows up in Brooklyn in 1826, then
upstate NY in 1840 census by 
   name...
RB(TN)> Hey Jeter I ordered two of Cornel West's CD's,today. Should
have them by Saturday. Thanks to you.
Sandra in BR> In-ter-est-ing, Jeter!
Art2 (Ohio)> Have you seen the various AA Census Post of FPOC's here
on AfriGeneas?
Sandra in BR> Art, which black codes?  There were a bunch.  Ohio Black
Codes?
> Kool, RB!
Sandra in BR> Lewis Adams "belongs" to you, Art?
Art2 (Ohio)> Yes, in Ohio Black codes enacted in 1804 one year  after
admission to the Union
Sandra in BR> Oh, okay, Art.
Art2 (Ohio)> Lewis is a 3rd great grandfather.
E.T.(CA)> "Black Codes", wow! Another thing that bothers me!
Sandra in BR> Jeter, Reuben lived a long time, huh?
Sandra in BR> Neat, Art.
E.T.(CA)> Wynton Marsalis (the trumpeter/musician) wrote an albem with
that title.
> He died in 1860, age 105
E.T.(CA)> album
Sandra in BR> Bothers you how, ET?
Sandra in BR> Wowie! Jeter.
Sandra in BR> FPOC fascinate me.  I guess that's why VKN asked me....
E.T.(CA)> I feel like I can make everything "right", but I can't. Slavery
and segregation were too much for the 
   "modern" mind.
E.T.(CA)> I'm sure, Sandra.
Sandra in BR> ET, I know I'm getting old now.  Segregation was a modern
phenomenon to me!
> Your fascination will guide you...
Sandra in BR> (c: @ Jeter.
E.T.(CA)> It's all tied together, Sandra. Slavery wasn't that long along.
Think about it!
Sandra in BR> I know.  Some of my great-grands were slaves--not many
generations removed....
E.T.(CA)> Kunta Kinde lived! I'd be dead! That's scarey to me!
> ~
Sandra in BR> I didn't know them, but I knew some of their children.
Art2 (Ohio)> Jeter, I see a couple of Melvin's in Carter G. Woodson's
FPOC's In 1830.
Sandra in BR> Art, I been "mad" at Woodson ever since you told me he
didn't have my PANGBURNs, and 
   they wuz free in 1830!
> OK! My melvins are definitely in NY by then...
> ...Where are they in Woodson's book?
Art2 (Ohio)> I'm going to check ALL P's Sandra, perhaps the spelling
was in error and it is not what we think it 
   is
Art2 (Ohio)> Jeter, fielding in KY and Joseph in VA
Art2 (Ohio)> Fielding Melvin & Joseph Melvin
> OK, I'll keep them in mind, thanks
Art2 (Ohio)> Jtlogn, there are 4 pages of FPOC's listed for Indiana
(1830)
END





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