AfriGeneas Saturday Night Chat Log 5 Aug 2000

Topic: NonPopulation Census Schedules



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The topic is: African Ancestry

[dldgreen] Hello Algee.  You've been here a while?

[Algee] No

[Algee] I thought I was late.

[dldgreen] Nope, we're on time.  Everyone else is late :-}....  We'll wait a

- few more minutes, otherwise I'll get started.

[dldgreen] Tonigjt's topic is the nonpopulation census schedules.  Have you

- used any before?

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[dldgreen] Hello PearlAlice!

[sistuh1] Type HEREHello!  How is the chat going?

[dldgreen] Haven't started yet.  Just waiting a minute or two before we get

- started.

[Algee] I was away for a few minutes.

[sistuh1] I'm getting used to the screen.  I see now there are three of us

- logged on.

[sistuh1] Hi Algee>  How are you this eveing?

[Algee] Hello sistuh

[dldgreen] Yes, Sisthu1, you are right.

[dldgreen] Algee, have you used the nonpopulation census before?

[Algee] I have some familiarity

[dldgreen] Sistuh 1, how about you?

[Algee] with the AG schedules.

[sistuh1] No.  Actually, I'm not familar with them.  Are they at the

- National Archives?

[dldgreen] Some are, most aren't.  I have a list of where they are for some

- states, which I will get into later.

[dldgreen] Okay, let's get started.  Others will probably join as the evening

- progresses.

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sistuh1] Great!  My research is primarily in Louisiana, though if I ever

- find the "last slave owner" i should be back in Georgia.

[CLB] Evening, all!!  :-)  Sorry I'm late.

[sistuh1] Hi CLB! Welcome.

[Algee] hi clb

[dldgreen] Hello CLB, welcome!  We're just about to get started, so make

- yourself comfy.

-  [CLB] Hi,m Sistuh, Algee,dldgreen!!!

- [dldgreen] All, I'm also trying to maintain a log of tonight's chat, so bear

- - with me as I multi-task.

- [sistuh1] (I have to run to the kitchen and get some water.  be right back)

- [CLB] sistuh?  Just a fast question?

- [CLB] Why is LA genealogy so hard??  rofl

- [sistuh1] Yes?

- [sistuh1] Lord, I don't know.  But it is a killer!!!  :o)

- [sistuh1] (be righ back)

- [Algee] ok

- [CLB] Unh hunh.  Sho iz!!

- [dldgreen] If you'd like a copy of tonight's log, please state your email

- - address now, so I can get it to you later this week.

-  [CLB] REB372@BellSouth.net

- [dldgreen] Tonight we are going to discuss the usefulness of the

- - nonpopulation census schedules.

- [sistuh1] I'm back -- sistuh1@aol.com

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- [dldgreen] Specifically the agricultural, industrial, mortality, and

- - slaveholders schedules.

- [AltaCann] Good evening everyone

- [sistuh1] Are we in protocol?

-  [sistuh1] Hi Altacann!

- [AltaCann] Where are we now?

- [dldgreen] Sistuh1, thanks, I had forgotten to cover that.

- [dldgreen] For purposes of minimizing confusion, we will use protocol.  I

- - will "lecture" for a bit (about 20 mins)...

- [dldgreen] ..then I'll open the floor for questions and comments afterwards.

- [AltaCann] Thank you.

- [dldgreen] If you have a question, type "?" (question mark)...

- [dldgreen] if you have a comment, type "!" (exclamation point)..

- [dldgreen] I will keep track and open the floor to you  in order submitted.

- [sistuh1] !

- [dldgreen] When you are finished you question or comment, you can yield the

- - floor by typing "/g" (forward slash  and the letter g).

- [dldgreen] Sistuh1 illustrates this very well!  Yes?

-  [sistuh1] Is there a way to make the print a little larger?  My old eyes!!

- - LOL

- [dldgreen] Not that I'm aware of.  Anyone know if we can enlargen the print?

- [AltaCann] !

- [dldgreen] Yes, AltaCann?

- [AltaCann] You should be able to enlarge print through your browser

- - settings.

- [AltaCann] On MS IE .....go to tools then opitions

- [AltaCann] options

- [AltaCann] I am not familiar with Netscape

- [CLB] !

- [dldgreen] Sistuh1, I hope that helps.  Thanks, AltaCann.

- [CLB] On Netscape you do that in the preferences section under edit

- [dldgreen] Yes, CLB?

-  [AltaCann] !

- [dldgreen] Thanks, CLB.  Yes Alta?

- [AltaCann] You may have to leave chat for a moment and come back after you

- - have changed settings.

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- [sistuh1] !

- [dldgreen] Sistuh1, your comment?

- [sistuh1] Thanks for the suggestions.  I will give it  a try.

- [AltaCann] Certainly

- [AltaCann] g

- [dldgreen] Great!  That's what Afrigeneas is about, helping each other! 

- - Let's continue....

- [dldgreen] As we know, the Census Bureau took a census, or population count,

- - every 10 years since 1790.

- [dldgreen] In addition, they were tasked with gathering facts in other

- - subject areas that may be useful

- [dldgreen] in furthering our genealogical pursuits.

- [dldgreen] The nonpopulation census schedules  consist of the agricultural,

- - mortality, industry or manufacturer, and slaveholders schedules.

- [dldgreen] There is also social statistics available, but these tend to be

- - aggregate stats instead of individual, by name information.

- [dldgreen] These nonpopulation schedules were taken primarily during the

- - period 1850 through 1880, with a few taken in 1810 and 1820.

- [dldgreen] Starting with the agricultural schedules...

- [dldgreen] ..a directive was issued from the Department of Interior to gather

- - agricultural information  during the census gathering.

- [dldgreen] There were pre-established rules on which farms would be

- - included...

- [dldgreen] For 1850 & 1860, any farm that produced $100 or more worth of

- - produce annually was to be included.

- [dldgreen] This was regardless of whether the farmer was the owner, tenant

- - farmer, or agent.

- [dldgreen] Information gather included the following:

- [dldgreen] * name of owner, agent, or tenant

- [dldgreen] * kind and value of acreage

- [dldgreen] * kind and value of farm equipment (machinery)

- [dldgreen] * amount of livestock

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- [dldgreen] * and lastly, amount of produce

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- [dldgreen] This information is particularly of value to genealogists when

- - trying to find out more about our family history.

- [dldgreen] It gives us insight into the types of lives they lead in terms of

- - occupation, and we can gauge

- [dldgreen] how well they did in terms of farming by comparing their acreage

- - and amounts  produced in comparison

- [Algee] (brb)

- [dldgreen] to their neighbors.  Additionally, ownership of a farm indicates

- - land ownership .  We can then go to the land records to ascertain

- [dldgreen] other facts of interest.  Also, tax records can be examined,

- - because you know Uncle Sam has

- [dldgreen] been taking their cut for many years now :-}.

- [dldgreen] Really, the local tax records are where you want to look.

- [dldgreen] In 1870, the criteria changed a bit.  The annual produce had to be

- - $500 or above..

- [Algee] (back)

- [dldgreen] and the acreage had to be 3 acres or  more.  The same type of

- - information was retained as the 1850 & 1860 schedules.

- [dldgreen] 1880 criteria is the same as 1870, with the same information

- - recorded as in the previous years.

- [dldgreen] The time period covered matches that of the census period in

- - question.  So, for example, the 1850 agricultural census

- [dldgreen] covers the same period ending 1 June 1880 as the population census

- - schedules.

- [dldgreen] Unfortunately, no indices are available for any of the

- - agricultural schedules.

- [dldgreen] The schedules are arranged by county.  A line by line search would

- - be necessary.

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- [dldgreen] The manufactures schedules were  taken in the years 1810, 1820,

- - and 1880.  A similar schedule, the industrial, was taken

- [Algee] --

- [dldgreen] 1850 through 1870.

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- [dldgreen] These contained info on businesses that made or manufactured

- - things...

- [Algee] ( I bet they got kicked off)

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- [dldgreen] Welcome back folks!  I guess you got bumped.

- [sistuh1] !

- [AltaCann] Yes

- [sistuh1] ( got kicked off!)

- [dldgreen] Sistuh1?

- [jeter] kicked to da curb!

- [sistuh1] Just apologizing for dropping out -- got kicked off!

- [dldgreen] No problem, that happens.

- [dldgreen] The manufacturer schedules contain the owners nanme, kind of

- - business, quantity and value of goods manufactured.

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- [linkgen] Hi everyone

- [dldgreen] In 1820 for the manufactures sched., the information got more

- - detailed...

- [dldgreen] including the number of men, women, boys & girls employed, amount

- - of capital invested, annual paid wages, expenses, etc.

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- [dldgreen] A gold mine if your ancestory was included!

- [dldgreen] In 1880, the manuf scheds  were only done for citlies over 8000

- - people.

- [dldgreen] The industrial sched for 1850 thru 1870 insluded manufactures,

- - fisheries, mercantile, commercial, and trading businesses with annual gross

- - product of $500 or more.

- [dldgreen] The mortality schedules were created for the years 1850, 1860,

- - 1870, and 1880.

- [dldgreen] They contain information on people who died  the year preceding

- - the census (12 month period prior).

-  [Algee] --

- [dldgreen] They yield such information as name, sex, color, birth place,

- - month of deathm cause of death, and on occassion, number of days sick.

- [dldgreen] This is of particular value in the years before death certificates

- - were available.

- [dldgreen] Lastly, the slaveholder schedules...

- [dldgreen] ...are available for the years 1850 & 1860.

- [jeter] ah, sookie sookie!

- [dldgreen] These list the name of the slaveholders, # of slaves broken down

- - in age groups and sometimes sex.

- [dldgreen] Sadly, no names are given, only numbers.  Rarely, you will see the

- - name of a slave, usually in the case of a very old slave.

- [dldgreen] However, with some analysis, you can determine who the slaveowners

- - were in your neck of the woods, and the # and age groupings of their slaves.

- [dldgreen] If you knew your ancestor was approx 18 years old in 1870 and

- - possibly a slave of Mr. Jones, then you can look

- [dldgreen] Mr Jones up in the slaveholders schedule and see if he had an 8

- - year old slave of that sex  in a noted age group..

- [dldgreen] That would give you more ammunition to move forward and see   one

- - in that grouping was your named ancestor but checking deeds and such.

- [dldgreen] I'll open the floor for questions now.  Algee, did you have a

- - question or comment for me?

-  [AltaCann] ?

- [Algee] Not at this time

- [sistuh1] ?

- [dldgreen] Okay AltaCann, the floor is yours.

- [AltaCann] Where can you find agricultural and motality schedules?

- [AltaCann] I found the Salve holder schedules in the county library

- [AltaCann] Slave

- [AltaCann] g

- [dldgreen] Generally, the  Census Bureau turned the original nonpopulation

- - schedules to non-Federal hands in 1918-ish.

- [AltaCann] Meaning?

- [dldgreen] I have a list of **some** states, which one are you interested in?

- [AltaCann] VA

- [dldgreen] Checking my list....

- [AltaCann] Thank you

- [dldgreen] For VA agricultural,...

- [jeter] ?

- [Algee] queue: sistuh, jeter

- [dldgreen] 1850 through 1880 are available on National Archives microfilm,

- - series T1132.  The originals for 1850, 1860, 1870 are at the Virginia State

- - Library

- [dldgreen] Same for Va Mortality.

- [AltaCann] Thank you

- [dldgreen] Thanks Algee, for keeping a queue!

- [AltaCann] g

- [dldgreen] Sistuh1, you comment or question.

- [sistuh1] Were the agricultural schedules maintained by the state,

- - county/parish, or federal government?  I'm interested in Louisiana.

- [dldgreen] The agricultural schedules were a directive of the Dept of

- - Interior, but maintained by the Census Bureau.

- [sistuh1] ?

- [sistuh1] Would I find the Louisiana schedule at the National Archives?

- [dldgreen] I do not have LA 's list, but it is available at NARA - DC, in the

- - research room, behind the desk.

- [CLB] ?

- [CLB] I'm working GA,AL.SC and NC.  Where're they?

- [sistuh1] WOW!  Thanks!  You know how difficult Louisiana can be!  I'll

- - check this week.

- [sistuh1] g

- [jeter] My folks were slaves in VA but i don't know where. Any suggestions?

- - Via the slave schedules..

- [dldgreen] Sorry, for the non-DC folks NARA-DC = National Archives, Wash, DC

- [dldgreen] CLB, you're next.  Hold while I check for your states.....

- [Algee] --

- [CLB] Are those availabel in NARA-Eastpointe,GA?

- [AltaCann] !

- [sistuh1] (remember...we're in protocol.)

- [CLB] Ooooops!!  Tkx

- [dldgreen] Sorry CLB, Jeter was next.  My apologies jeter.  Your question or

- - comments?

-  [jeter] My folks in VA but I don't know where

- [jeter] How can I use the slave schedules?

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- [dldgreen] Jeter, I'd suggest you find them somehow, in the 1870 census as a

- - minimum.  If you have a suspected slaveowner's

- [dldgreen] name, then perhaps you can jump to the slaveholders schedule. 

- - When was the last you located you folks in the census?

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- [jeter] problem, my family shows up in PA in 1870..

- [dldgreen] Jeter, have you a suspected county in VA ?

- [jeter] All with place of birth in VA...

- [dldgreen] Jeter, a problem indeed.  Any others in the PA census neighborhood

- - with VA birth?

- [jeter] no suspected county unless Jeter is the name of the last slave

- - owner, which I can't yet prove...

- [linkgen] yes, my family

- [dldgreen] Jeter, that's a big step to jump to, assuming last name of Jeter,

- - but seems like all you have.

- [jeter] I'll check up on the neighborhood angle...

- [jeter] Yea... Thanks

- [dldgreen] If you want to go the Jeter-VA angle, then you will have to look

- - for and research all JETER slaveowners in VA.  Not a small task, I'd

- - imagine.

- [dldgreen] Jeter may not have been the last slaveowner.  They may have taken

- - the name for any # of reasons.  Good luck@

- [dldgreen] @=!

- [jeter] But I'm up to da task! LOL

- [dldgreen] CLB, you were next, I'll check your states...

- [CLB]  Besides OK and LA I'm working AL,GA,SC and NC +

- - VA now.  Can I find any of those at the NARA-Eastpointe,GA branch?

- [dldgreen] GA - on NARA microfilm series T1137 and T655, which should be

- - available at East Point, my old hangout...

- [CLB] Yipppeee!!   Thank ya!!  Sho makes it convenient!!  :-)

- [Algee] --

- [dldgreen] NC - Manuf & industry NARA microfilm series M279 & M1805.  All

- - others at NC Dept of Archives, Raleigh, NC.

- [dldgreen] SC, all at SC Dept of Archives, Columbia, SC - my home away from

- - home.

- [dldgreen] SC has it all on microfilm except, 1820 manuf, which is NARA

- - microfilm series M279.

- [CLB] (6 hours drive)

- [dldgreen] CLB, lucky you!  You know SC also sells their microfilm for approx

- - $35 per roll....

- [CLB] Great news to my ears!!

- [sistuh1] ?

- [dldgreen] Sistuh1, your turn.

- [sistuh1] (Isn't algee next?)

-  [Algee] No I am just typing to stay connected

- [AltaCann] AltaCann was next I think .....

- [AltaCann] but it's ok

- [sistuh1] Okay... Are the Agricultural Schedules indexed and are you

- - familiar with Louisiana?

- [sistuh1] Woops!

- [sistuh1] I can wait.

- [dldgreen] Sistuh, y'all keep me straight,.  Too much multi in my

- - multi-tasking (lol).  But go ahead, Sistuh.

- [AltaCann] !

- [AltaCann] ?

- [sistuh1] Okay.  I was asking if the agricultural schedules are indexed and

- - are you familiar with Louisiana.

- [Algee] queue: sistuh, Alta

- [dldgreen] Sistuh, none of the nonpopulation schedules are indexed.  Not

- - familiar with LA, but may need to seek you out in future, as I may have a

- - relative who went to LA.

- [sistuh1] I'm very excited.  my ggrandfather purchased 80 acres in 1880 for

- - $500 which means he must have been working and saving.  I hope to find

- - something.

- [dldgreen] Sistuh, way to go!  Let us know what you find!  Any more questions

- - before I go to Alta?

- [sistuh1] nope!  I wish the archives were open right now LOL

- [sistuh1] g

- [linkgen] linkgen?

- [dldgreen] Alta, your question or comment?

- [AltaCann] My comment is to Jeter

- [dldgreen] Go ahead....

- [AltaCann] Do you have any elder relatives avaibale or capable to answer

- - questions for you?

- [AltaCann] That might be a start

- [AltaCann] My question forth coming

- [jeter] No, stories were never passed down; grandparents passed before I was

- - born

- [Algee] queue: linkgen

- [AltaCann] Sorry

- [AltaCann] My qestion

- [sistuh1] !

- [AltaCann] Are any of the VA Agri or mortality schedules for sale at

- - NARA-DC?

- [Algee] queue: Alta, Linkgen, Sistuh

- [dldgreen] Alta, yes, you may purchase ANY NARA film through their program or

- - rent through AGLL (American genealogical Lending Library).  Info for both is

- - on the web.

- [AltaCann] And can I purchase VA census schedules anywhere?

- [Algee] queue: Linkgen, Sistuh, Jeter

- [AltaCann] Thank you ... you answered all

- [AltaCann] g

- [dldgreen] Alta, if they are on NARA film, yes, same answer as previous. 

- - Otherwise, you'd have to contact the holding instiution for more info on

- - that.

- [dldgreen] instiution =institution

- [AltaCann] Thank you

- [AltaCann] g

- [dldgreen] Lingen, your comment or question (thanks, Algee)

- [linkgen] Does the FHS have the nonpopulation records also? My NARA is 11/2

- - drive away in San Bruno.

- [dldgreen] LinkGen, goodness!  That is a drive!  You may check the FHC

- - catalog online to see what they have for your areas of research.

- [AltaCann] ?

- [dldgreen] If you need the URL, email me later at AfrStateAssist@aol.com

- [linkgen] I'm looking for Kansas and Penn records.

- [dldgreen] and I'll send it to you.

- [Algee] queue: Sistuh, Jeter, Alta Cann

- [linkgen] Thanks I will e-mail you. MAy I have a copy of this chat  and last

- - week?

- [dldgreen] Linkgen and all, a log will be available, just type your email

- - address for the record and I'll send it out later this week.

- [dldgreen] Linkgen, anything else before I go to Sistuh?

- [linkgen] thanks I want to share the info with my AAGS group.

- [linkgen] nothing else right now. thank you

- first.

- [sistuh1] I hope the agricultural schedule will shed a little more light on

- - his life.

- [sistuh1] I will start this week at the archives.  Thanks!

- [sistuh1] g

- [Algee] Algee> queue: Sist, Algeeuh, Jeter, Alta CannAlgee> queue: Sistuh,

- - Jeter, Alta Cannqueue: Jeter, Alta

- [dldgreen] Sistuh, unless you find a record indicating firsthand knowledge of

- - his birth, the date will always be inquestion.

- [Algee] 

- [sistuh1] I guess you really do have to work your way backwards and find out

- - for sure.  Thanks again.

- [sistuh1] g

- [dldgreen] Jeter?

- [jeter] Is there a repository for slave owners? Catagorized by states

- - (particulary VA :))?

- [dldgreen] Jeter, I'm not aware of such.  You may want to contact the VA

- - Library and see what they have.  I'd say that the 1860 & 1850 ...

- [sistuh1] !

- [dldgreen] slaveowners schedules are  the closest you will come to an "across

- - the board" list.

- [Algee] queue:  Alta, Sistuh,

- [jeter] My gr-grandfather went back to VA (from PA) to get his parents after

- - the civil war. This is according to his mother's obit.

- [dldgreen] [Folks don't forget to type you're email address before you leave

- - so I can send you the chat log.]

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- [jeter] i think he bought them out of slavery

- [dldgreen] Jeter, no mention of where in VA, huh?  You'll have to dig in the

- - records, search collateral lines, etc. for clues as to where in VA these

- - folks may have come from.

- [jeter] oh, geder@onebox.com

- [CLB] (Bumpmonster is out and the Sandman is throwing sleep in my eyes)  

- - Nytol!!  :-)

- [Algee] (Great session!!!)

- [CLB] (Bumpmonster is out and the Sandman is throwing sleep in my eyes)  

- - Nytol!!  :-)

- [Algee] (Great session!!!)

-  CLB has left channel #XC.1810375

- [jeter] collateral lines?

- [dldgreen] Nite sleepy heads ;-}.  I'll hang around to address Sistuh, Jeter,

- - and Alta before I leave.

- [dldgreen] Sistuh, I believe you were next?

- [sistuh1] Just to whine a little more  :o)  In 1870, my ggrandfather is

- - listed as Lewis MARSH.  But, there are no slaveowners named MARSH in

- - Louisiana in 1860.  I just have to persist....

- [dldgreen] Yes, that would be the plan....

- [sistuh1] No more comments.  I'm getting sleepy myself.

- [sistuh1] g

- [dldgreen] Jeter?

- [AltaCann] What is FHC and what records are held at College Park, MD

- - facility? I am about 7 miles from College Park in MD.  altacann@aol.com for

- - chat logs of both this and last week. Jeter, maybe I can help you with VA

- - since that is the only place I have to search. note email address,

- - please.Thank you.

- [AltaCann] Oops ..thought is was my turn.

- [jeter] I'm still here!

- [sistuh1] !

- [Algee] Nite to all

- [linkgen] linkgen@aol.com for chat long

- [jeter] go ahead, alta..

- [dldgreen] Alta, I'll get you after Jeter...Jeter?

- [sistuh1] sistuh1@aol.com

-  Algee has left channel #XC.1810375

- [jeter] what is a collateral line?

- [linkgen] that's log I guess I'm sleepy also.

- [dldgreen] Collateral line = lines of your ancestor's siblings.  For example,

- - your ancestor is JohnDoe. Your direct line...

- [dldgreen] would be John Doe and his descendants.

- [dldgreen] Your collateral lines would be those of his siblings and their

- - descendants.

- [jeter] ok

- [dldgreen] More clues can be found that way.

- [dldgreen] Jeter, anything else?

-  [jeter] gotcha, thanks!

- [jeter] g

- [dldgreen] Great, jeter.  Last but , not least, Alta, your comment or

- - question?

- [AltaCann] My qusetions are there already FHC? and what is at College Park,

- - MD facility. I also want to assist Jeter with VA,  only state I search. 

- - Again, altacann@aol.com for both chat logs and for Jeter to contact me.

- [sistuh1] !

- [dldgreen] FHC = Family History Center (ran by Church of Jesus Christ of

- - Latter Day Saints, or Mormons)

- [AltaCann] OK

- [AltaCann] as in okay

- [dldgreen] Alta,  College Park has more presidential type records, some

- - military records, lots of photographs, and an excellent map room, to name

- - some things.

- [dldgreen] Wonderful of you to assist Jeter.  Did you get Jeter's email

- - address?

- [jeter] [e-mail comin your way Alta!]

- [AltaCann] Thanks so much, I learn much here! Nothing further. Please send

- - logs. OK , Jeter!

- [dldgreen] Sistuh, your turn...

-  [sistuh1] I just want to thank Damita for a wonderul, wonderful session

- - before saying good night. THANK YOU DAMITA!!!

- [AltaCann] This is so valuable to me, I appreciated everyone's questions and

- - comments!

- [dldgreen] Sistuh and all, it was an absolute pleasure.  You are very

- - welcome!

- [AltaCann] Thanks to Damita from me , too! Thank you all.

- [dldgreen] Thank you all for spending the evening with AfriGeneas chat.  Come

- - back again!

- [linkgen] Thanks everyone I learn so much from the short time we spend

- - together.

- [dldgreen] Lights dimming, nite all!

- [sistuh1] Good night!  See you next time!!  ) o)

- [AltaCann] Nite

-  sistuh1 has left channel #XC.1810375

- [jeter] goodnight all!

- [linkgen] night all, happy hunting

- 




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AfriGeneas ~ African Ancestory Genealogy