Topic: NonPopulation Census Schedules Trying TCP connection to memberchat.xoom.com:8900 ... The remote machine has accepted the network request ... please wait. (c) 1999 NBC Internet [http://www.ParaChat.com] ParaChat server 3.00.01 dldgreen has joined channel #XC.1810375 The topic is: African Ancestry [dldgreen] Hello Algee. You've been here a while? [Algee] No [Algee] I thought I was late. [dldgreen] Nope, we're on time. Everyone else is late :-}.... We'll wait a - few more minutes, otherwise I'll get started. [dldgreen] Tonigjt's topic is the nonpopulation census schedules. Have you - used any before? sistuh1 has joined channel #XC.1810375 [dldgreen] Hello PearlAlice! [sistuh1] Type HEREHello! How is the chat going? [dldgreen] Haven't started yet. Just waiting a minute or two before we get - started. [Algee] I was away for a few minutes. [sistuh1] I'm getting used to the screen. I see now there are three of us - logged on. [sistuh1] Hi Algee> How are you this eveing? [Algee] Hello sistuh [dldgreen] Yes, Sisthu1, you are right. [dldgreen] Algee, have you used the nonpopulation census before? [Algee] I have some familiarity [dldgreen] Sistuh 1, how about you? [Algee] with the AG schedules. [sistuh1] No. Actually, I'm not familar with them. Are they at the - National Archives? [dldgreen] Some are, most aren't. I have a list of where they are for some - states, which I will get into later. [dldgreen] Okay, let's get started. Others will probably join as the evening - progresses. CLB has joined channel #XC.1810375 sistuh1] Great! My research is primarily in Louisiana, though if I ever - find the "last slave owner" i should be back in Georgia. [CLB] Evening, all!! :-) Sorry I'm late. [sistuh1] Hi CLB! Welcome. [Algee] hi clb [dldgreen] Hello CLB, welcome! We're just about to get started, so make - yourself comfy. - [CLB] Hi,m Sistuh, Algee,dldgreen!!! - [dldgreen] All, I'm also trying to maintain a log of tonight's chat, so bear - - with me as I multi-task. - [sistuh1] (I have to run to the kitchen and get some water. be right back) - [CLB] sistuh? Just a fast question? - [CLB] Why is LA genealogy so hard?? rofl - [sistuh1] Yes? - [sistuh1] Lord, I don't know. But it is a killer!!! :o) - [sistuh1] (be righ back) - [Algee] ok - [CLB] Unh hunh. Sho iz!! - [dldgreen] If you'd like a copy of tonight's log, please state your email - - address now, so I can get it to you later this week. - [CLB] REB372@BellSouth.net - [dldgreen] Tonight we are going to discuss the usefulness of the - - nonpopulation census schedules. - [sistuh1] I'm back -- firstname.lastname@example.org - AltaCann has joined channel #XC.1810375 - [dldgreen] Specifically the agricultural, industrial, mortality, and - - slaveholders schedules. - [AltaCann] Good evening everyone - [sistuh1] Are we in protocol? - [sistuh1] Hi Altacann! - [AltaCann] Where are we now? - [dldgreen] Sistuh1, thanks, I had forgotten to cover that. - [dldgreen] For purposes of minimizing confusion, we will use protocol. I - - will "lecture" for a bit (about 20 mins)... - [dldgreen] ..then I'll open the floor for questions and comments afterwards. - [AltaCann] Thank you. - [dldgreen] If you have a question, type "?" (question mark)... - [dldgreen] if you have a comment, type "!" (exclamation point).. - [dldgreen] I will keep track and open the floor to you in order submitted. - [sistuh1] ! - [dldgreen] When you are finished you question or comment, you can yield the - - floor by typing "/g" (forward slash and the letter g). - [dldgreen] Sistuh1 illustrates this very well! Yes? - [sistuh1] Is there a way to make the print a little larger? My old eyes!! - - LOL - [dldgreen] Not that I'm aware of. Anyone know if we can enlargen the print? - [AltaCann] ! - [dldgreen] Yes, AltaCann? - [AltaCann] You should be able to enlarge print through your browser - - settings. - [AltaCann] On MS IE .....go to tools then opitions - [AltaCann] options - [AltaCann] I am not familiar with Netscape - [CLB] ! - [dldgreen] Sistuh1, I hope that helps. Thanks, AltaCann. - [CLB] On Netscape you do that in the preferences section under edit - [dldgreen] Yes, CLB? - [AltaCann] ! - [dldgreen] Thanks, CLB. Yes Alta? - [AltaCann] You may have to leave chat for a moment and come back after you - - have changed settings. - jeter has joined channel #XC.1810375 - [sistuh1] ! - [dldgreen] Sistuh1, your comment? - [sistuh1] Thanks for the suggestions. I will give it a try. - [AltaCann] Certainly - [AltaCann] g - [dldgreen] Great! That's what Afrigeneas is about, helping each other! - - Let's continue.... - [dldgreen] As we know, the Census Bureau took a census, or population count, - - every 10 years since 1790. - [dldgreen] In addition, they were tasked with gathering facts in other - - subject areas that may be useful - [dldgreen] in furthering our genealogical pursuits. - [dldgreen] The nonpopulation census schedules consist of the agricultural, - - mortality, industry or manufacturer, and slaveholders schedules. - [dldgreen] There is also social statistics available, but these tend to be - - aggregate stats instead of individual, by name information. - [dldgreen] These nonpopulation schedules were taken primarily during the - - period 1850 through 1880, with a few taken in 1810 and 1820. - [dldgreen] Starting with the agricultural schedules... - [dldgreen] ..a directive was issued from the Department of Interior to gather - - agricultural information during the census gathering. - [dldgreen] There were pre-established rules on which farms would be - - included... - [dldgreen] For 1850 & 1860, any farm that produced $100 or more worth of - - produce annually was to be included. - [dldgreen] This was regardless of whether the farmer was the owner, tenant - - farmer, or agent. - [dldgreen] Information gather included the following: - [dldgreen] * name of owner, agent, or tenant - [dldgreen] * kind and value of acreage - [dldgreen] * kind and value of farm equipment (machinery) - [dldgreen] * amount of livestock - Algee has left channel #XC.1810375 - [dldgreen] * and lastly, amount of produce - Algee has joined channel #XC.1810375 - [dldgreen] This information is particularly of value to genealogists when - - trying to find out more about our family history. - [dldgreen] It gives us insight into the types of lives they lead in terms of - - occupation, and we can gauge - [dldgreen] how well they did in terms of farming by comparing their acreage - - and amounts produced in comparison - [Algee] (brb) - [dldgreen] to their neighbors. Additionally, ownership of a farm indicates - - land ownership . We can then go to the land records to ascertain - [dldgreen] other facts of interest. Also, tax records can be examined, - - because you know Uncle Sam has - [dldgreen] been taking their cut for many years now :-}. - [dldgreen] Really, the local tax records are where you want to look. - [dldgreen] In 1870, the criteria changed a bit. The annual produce had to be - - $500 or above.. - [Algee] (back) - [dldgreen] and the acreage had to be 3 acres or more. The same type of - - information was retained as the 1850 & 1860 schedules. - [dldgreen] 1880 criteria is the same as 1870, with the same information - - recorded as in the previous years. - [dldgreen] The time period covered matches that of the census period in - - question. So, for example, the 1850 agricultural census - [dldgreen] covers the same period ending 1 June 1880 as the population census - - schedules. - [dldgreen] Unfortunately, no indices are available for any of the - - agricultural schedules. - [dldgreen] The schedules are arranged by county. A line by line search would - - be necessary. - sistuh1 has left channel #XC.1810375 - [dldgreen] The manufactures schedules were taken in the years 1810, 1820, - - and 1880. A similar schedule, the industrial, was taken - [Algee] -- - [dldgreen] 1850 through 1870. - CLB has left channel #XC.1810375 - AltaCann has left channel #XC.1810375 - jeter has left channel #XC.1810375 - sistuh1 has joined channel #XC.1810375 - AltaCann has joined channel #XC.1810375 - [dldgreen] These contained info on businesses that made or manufactured - - things... - [Algee] ( I bet they got kicked off) - jeter has joined channel #XC.1810375 - [dldgreen] Welcome back folks! I guess you got bumped. - [sistuh1] ! - [AltaCann] Yes - [sistuh1] ( got kicked off!) - [dldgreen] Sistuh1? - [jeter] kicked to da curb! - [sistuh1] Just apologizing for dropping out -- got kicked off! - [dldgreen] No problem, that happens. - [dldgreen] The manufacturer schedules contain the owners nanme, kind of - - business, quantity and value of goods manufactured. - linkgen has joined channel #XC.1810375 - [linkgen] Hi everyone - [dldgreen] In 1820 for the manufactures sched., the information got more - - detailed... - [dldgreen] including the number of men, women, boys & girls employed, amount - - of capital invested, annual paid wages, expenses, etc. - CLB has joined channel #XC.1810375 - [dldgreen] A gold mine if your ancestory was included! - [dldgreen] In 1880, the manuf scheds were only done for citlies over 8000 - - people. - [dldgreen] The industrial sched for 1850 thru 1870 insluded manufactures, - - fisheries, mercantile, commercial, and trading businesses with annual gross - - product of $500 or more. - [dldgreen] The mortality schedules were created for the years 1850, 1860, - - 1870, and 1880. - [dldgreen] They contain information on people who died the year preceding - - the census (12 month period prior). - [Algee] -- - [dldgreen] They yield such information as name, sex, color, birth place, - - month of deathm cause of death, and on occassion, number of days sick. - [dldgreen] This is of particular value in the years before death certificates - - were available. - [dldgreen] Lastly, the slaveholder schedules... - [dldgreen] ...are available for the years 1850 & 1860. - [jeter] ah, sookie sookie! - [dldgreen] These list the name of the slaveholders, # of slaves broken down - - in age groups and sometimes sex. - [dldgreen] Sadly, no names are given, only numbers. Rarely, you will see the - - name of a slave, usually in the case of a very old slave. - [dldgreen] However, with some analysis, you can determine who the slaveowners - - were in your neck of the woods, and the # and age groupings of their slaves. - [dldgreen] If you knew your ancestor was approx 18 years old in 1870 and - - possibly a slave of Mr. Jones, then you can look - [dldgreen] Mr Jones up in the slaveholders schedule and see if he had an 8 - - year old slave of that sex in a noted age group.. - [dldgreen] That would give you more ammunition to move forward and see one - - in that grouping was your named ancestor but checking deeds and such. - [dldgreen] I'll open the floor for questions now. Algee, did you have a - - question or comment for me? - [AltaCann] ? - [Algee] Not at this time - [sistuh1] ? - [dldgreen] Okay AltaCann, the floor is yours. - [AltaCann] Where can you find agricultural and motality schedules? - [AltaCann] I found the Salve holder schedules in the county library - [AltaCann] Slave - [AltaCann] g - [dldgreen] Generally, the Census Bureau turned the original nonpopulation - - schedules to non-Federal hands in 1918-ish. - [AltaCann] Meaning? - [dldgreen] I have a list of **some** states, which one are you interested in? - [AltaCann] VA - [dldgreen] Checking my list.... - [AltaCann] Thank you - [dldgreen] For VA agricultural,... - [jeter] ? - [Algee] queue: sistuh, jeter - [dldgreen] 1850 through 1880 are available on National Archives microfilm, - - series T1132. The originals for 1850, 1860, 1870 are at the Virginia State - - Library - [dldgreen] Same for Va Mortality. - [AltaCann] Thank you - [dldgreen] Thanks Algee, for keeping a queue! - [AltaCann] g - [dldgreen] Sistuh1, you comment or question. - [sistuh1] Were the agricultural schedules maintained by the state, - - county/parish, or federal government? I'm interested in Louisiana. - [dldgreen] The agricultural schedules were a directive of the Dept of - - Interior, but maintained by the Census Bureau. - [sistuh1] ? - [sistuh1] Would I find the Louisiana schedule at the National Archives? - [dldgreen] I do not have LA 's list, but it is available at NARA - DC, in the - - research room, behind the desk. - [CLB] ? - [CLB] I'm working GA,AL.SC and NC. Where're they? - [sistuh1] WOW! Thanks! You know how difficult Louisiana can be! I'll - - check this week. - [sistuh1] g - [jeter] My folks were slaves in VA but i don't know where. Any suggestions? - - Via the slave schedules.. - [dldgreen] Sorry, for the non-DC folks NARA-DC = National Archives, Wash, DC - [dldgreen] CLB, you're next. Hold while I check for your states..... - [Algee] -- - [CLB] Are those availabel in NARA-Eastpointe,GA? - [AltaCann] ! - [sistuh1] (remember...we're in protocol.) - [CLB] Ooooops!! Tkx - [dldgreen] Sorry CLB, Jeter was next. My apologies jeter. Your question or - - comments? - [jeter] My folks in VA but I don't know where - [jeter] How can I use the slave schedules? - linkgen has left channel #XC.1810375 - [dldgreen] Jeter, I'd suggest you find them somehow, in the 1870 census as a - - minimum. If you have a suspected slaveowner's - [dldgreen] name, then perhaps you can jump to the slaveholders schedule. - - When was the last you located you folks in the census? - linkgen has joined channel #XC.1810375 - [jeter] problem, my family shows up in PA in 1870.. - [dldgreen] Jeter, have you a suspected county in VA ? - [jeter] All with place of birth in VA... - [dldgreen] Jeter, a problem indeed. Any others in the PA census neighborhood - - with VA birth? - [jeter] no suspected county unless Jeter is the name of the last slave - - owner, which I can't yet prove... - [linkgen] yes, my family - [dldgreen] Jeter, that's a big step to jump to, assuming last name of Jeter, - - but seems like all you have. - [jeter] I'll check up on the neighborhood angle... - [jeter] Yea... Thanks - [dldgreen] If you want to go the Jeter-VA angle, then you will have to look - - for and research all JETER slaveowners in VA. Not a small task, I'd - - imagine. - [dldgreen] Jeter may not have been the last slaveowner. They may have taken - - the name for any # of reasons. Good luck@ - [dldgreen] @=! - [jeter] But I'm up to da task! LOL - [dldgreen] CLB, you were next, I'll check your states... - [CLB]
Besides OK and LA I'm working AL,GA,SC and NC + - - VA now. Can I find any of those at the NARA-Eastpointe,GA branch? - [dldgreen] GA - on NARA microfilm series T1137 and T655, which should be - - available at East Point, my old hangout... - [CLB] Yipppeee!! Thank ya!! Sho makes it convenient!! :-) - [Algee] -- - [dldgreen] NC - Manuf & industry NARA microfilm series M279 & M1805. All - - others at NC Dept of Archives, Raleigh, NC. - [dldgreen] SC, all at SC Dept of Archives, Columbia, SC - my home away from - - home. - [dldgreen] SC has it all on microfilm except, 1820 manuf, which is NARA - - microfilm series M279. - [CLB] (6 hours drive) - [dldgreen] CLB, lucky you! You know SC also sells their microfilm for approx - - $35 per roll.... - [CLB] Great news to my ears!! - [sistuh1] ? - [dldgreen] Sistuh1, your turn. - [sistuh1] (Isn't algee next?) - [Algee] No I am just typing to stay connected - [AltaCann] AltaCann was next I think ..... - [AltaCann] but it's ok - [sistuh1] Okay... Are the Agricultural Schedules indexed and are you - - familiar with Louisiana? - [sistuh1] Woops! - [sistuh1] I can wait. - [dldgreen] Sistuh, y'all keep me straight,. Too much multi in my - - multi-tasking (lol). But go ahead, Sistuh. - [AltaCann] ! - [AltaCann] ? - [sistuh1] Okay. I was asking if the agricultural schedules are indexed and - - are you familiar with Louisiana. - [Algee] queue: sistuh, Alta - [dldgreen] Sistuh, none of the nonpopulation schedules are indexed. Not - - familiar with LA, but may need to seek you out in future, as I may have a - - relative who went to LA. - [sistuh1] I'm very excited. my ggrandfather purchased 80 acres in 1880 for - - $500 which means he must have been working and saving. I hope to find - - something. - [dldgreen] Sistuh, way to go! Let us know what you find! Any more questions - - before I go to Alta? - [sistuh1] nope! I wish the archives were open right now LOL - [sistuh1] g - [linkgen] linkgen? - [dldgreen] Alta, your question or comment? - [AltaCann] My comment is to Jeter - [dldgreen] Go ahead.... - [AltaCann] Do you have any elder relatives avaibale or capable to answer - - questions for you? - [AltaCann] That might be a start - [AltaCann] My question forth coming - [jeter] No, stories were never passed down; grandparents passed before I was - - born - [Algee] queue: linkgen - [AltaCann] Sorry - [AltaCann] My qestion - [sistuh1] ! - [AltaCann] Are any of the VA Agri or mortality schedules for sale at - - NARA-DC? - [Algee] queue: Alta, Linkgen, Sistuh - [dldgreen] Alta, yes, you may purchase ANY NARA film through their program or - - rent through AGLL (American genealogical Lending Library). Info for both is - - on the web. - [AltaCann] And can I purchase VA census schedules anywhere? - [Algee] queue: Linkgen, Sistuh, Jeter - [AltaCann] Thank you ... you answered all - [AltaCann] g - [dldgreen] Alta, if they are on NARA film, yes, same answer as previous. - - Otherwise, you'd have to contact the holding instiution for more info on - - that. - [dldgreen] instiution =institution - [AltaCann] Thank you - [AltaCann] g - [dldgreen] Lingen, your comment or question (thanks, Algee) - [linkgen] Does the FHS have the nonpopulation records also? My NARA is 11/2 - - drive away in San Bruno. - [dldgreen] LinkGen, goodness! That is a drive! You may check the FHC - - catalog online to see what they have for your areas of research. - [AltaCann] ? - [dldgreen] If you need the URL, email me later at AfrStateAssist@aol.com - [linkgen] I'm looking for Kansas and Penn records. - [dldgreen] and I'll send it to you. - [Algee] queue: Sistuh, Jeter, Alta Cann - [linkgen] Thanks I will e-mail you. MAy I have a copy of this chat and last - - week? - [dldgreen] Linkgen and all, a log will be available, just type your email - - address for the record and I'll send it out later this week. - [dldgreen] Linkgen, anything else before I go to Sistuh? - [linkgen] thanks I want to share the info with my AAGS group. - [linkgen] nothing else right now. thank you - first. - [sistuh1] I hope the agricultural schedule will shed a little more light on - - his life. - [sistuh1] I will start this week at the archives. Thanks! - [sistuh1] g - [Algee] Algee> queue: Sist, Algeeuh, Jeter, Alta CannAlgee> queue: Sistuh, - - Jeter, Alta Cannqueue: Jeter, Alta - [dldgreen] Sistuh, unless you find a record indicating firsthand knowledge of - - his birth, the date will always be inquestion. - [Algee] - [sistuh1] I guess you really do have to work your way backwards and find out - - for sure. Thanks again. - [sistuh1] g - [dldgreen] Jeter? - [jeter] Is there a repository for slave owners? Catagorized by states - - (particulary VA :))? - [dldgreen] Jeter, I'm not aware of such. You may want to contact the VA - - Library and see what they have. I'd say that the 1860 & 1850 ... - [sistuh1] ! - [dldgreen] slaveowners schedules are the closest you will come to an "across - - the board" list. - [Algee] queue: Alta, Sistuh, - [jeter] My gr-grandfather went back to VA (from PA) to get his parents after - - the civil war. This is according to his mother's obit. - [dldgreen] [Folks don't forget to type you're email address before you leave - - so I can send you the chat log.] - CLB has left channel #XC.1810375 - CLB has joined channel #XC.1810375 - [jeter] i think he bought them out of slavery - [dldgreen] Jeter, no mention of where in VA, huh? You'll have to dig in the - - records, search collateral lines, etc. for clues as to where in VA these - - folks may have come from. - [jeter] oh, email@example.com - [CLB] (Bumpmonster is out and the Sandman is throwing sleep in my eyes) - - Nytol!! :-) - [Algee] (Great session!!!) - [CLB] (Bumpmonster is out and the Sandman is throwing sleep in my eyes) - - Nytol!! :-) - [Algee] (Great session!!!) - CLB has left channel #XC.1810375 - [jeter] collateral lines? - [dldgreen] Nite sleepy heads ;-}. I'll hang around to address Sistuh, Jeter, - - and Alta before I leave. - [dldgreen] Sistuh, I believe you were next? - [sistuh1] Just to whine a little more :o) In 1870, my ggrandfather is - - listed as Lewis MARSH. But, there are no slaveowners named MARSH in - - Louisiana in 1860. I just have to persist.... - [dldgreen] Yes, that would be the plan.... - [sistuh1] No more comments. I'm getting sleepy myself. - [sistuh1] g - [dldgreen] Jeter? - [AltaCann] What is FHC and what records are held at College Park, MD - - facility? I am about 7 miles from College Park in MD. firstname.lastname@example.org for - - chat logs of both this and last week. Jeter, maybe I can help you with VA - - since that is the only place I have to search. note email address, - - please.Thank you. - [AltaCann] Oops ..thought is was my turn. - [jeter] I'm still here! - [sistuh1] ! - [Algee] Nite to all - [linkgen] email@example.com for chat long - [jeter] go ahead, alta.. - [dldgreen] Alta, I'll get you after Jeter...Jeter? - [sistuh1] firstname.lastname@example.org - Algee has left channel #XC.1810375 - [jeter] what is a collateral line? - [linkgen] that's log I guess I'm sleepy also. - [dldgreen] Collateral line = lines of your ancestor's siblings. For example, - - your ancestor is JohnDoe. Your direct line... - [dldgreen] would be John Doe and his descendants. - [dldgreen] Your collateral lines would be those of his siblings and their - - descendants. - [jeter] ok - [dldgreen] More clues can be found that way. - [dldgreen] Jeter, anything else? - [jeter] gotcha, thanks! - [jeter] g - [dldgreen] Great, jeter. Last but , not least, Alta, your comment or - - question? - [AltaCann] My qusetions are there already FHC? and what is at College Park, - - MD facility. I also want to assist Jeter with VA, only state I search. - - Again, email@example.com for both chat logs and for Jeter to contact me. - [sistuh1] ! - [dldgreen] FHC = Family History Center (ran by Church of Jesus Christ of - - Latter Day Saints, or Mormons) - [AltaCann] OK - [AltaCann] as in okay - [dldgreen] Alta, College Park has more presidential type records, some - - military records, lots of photographs, and an excellent map room, to name - - some things. - [dldgreen] Wonderful of you to assist Jeter. Did you get Jeter's email - - address? - [jeter] [e-mail comin your way Alta!] - [AltaCann] Thanks so much, I learn much here! Nothing further. Please send - - logs. OK , Jeter! - [dldgreen] Sistuh, your turn... - [sistuh1] I just want to thank Damita for a wonderul, wonderful session - - before saying good night. THANK YOU DAMITA!!! - [AltaCann] This is so valuable to me, I appreciated everyone's questions and - - comments! - [dldgreen] Sistuh and all, it was an absolute pleasure. You are very - - welcome! - [AltaCann] Thanks to Damita from me , too! Thank you all. - [dldgreen] Thank you all for spending the evening with AfriGeneas chat. Come - - back again! - [linkgen] Thanks everyone I learn so much from the short time we spend - - together. - [dldgreen] Lights dimming, nite all! - [sistuh1] Good night! See you next time!! ) o) - [AltaCann] Nite - sistuh1 has left channel #XC.1810375 - [jeter] goodnight all! - [linkgen] night all, happy hunting -
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AfriGeneas ~ African Ancestory Genealogy